Went to look at a car today

"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa) 08/31/2016 at 21:31 • Filed to: Miata

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2002 Miata SE. Found it on Craigslist and did some Grade-A stalking because the phone wasn’t getting picked up and found out it’s at a small dealership at an adjacent town that may or may not exist, depending on who you ask, and only has a Facebook page that hasn’t been updated since 2014, a website that is just a DNS error, and a Google listing that says “permanently closed”. Regardless, I hustled the 30 minute drive there after work in hopes they would be open until 6:00. Here’s what I saw.

The interior is exactly what I wanted my NA to look like. It has more toys than my Riviera does. These toys include: Cruise control, fog lights, power mirrors, bose sound system with 6 disk CD changer, 6 speed manual, torsen LSD, heated rear glass in the soft top (which will also plug into the heated rear glass in my hardtop), power locks (I believe it has keyless entry?), and projector headlights (HID time!).

So here’s the bad:

Decent gouge in the very front of the bumper cover

2" diameter small dent in the quarter panel. Will come out with some PDR

Tires will need replacing VERY soon

Driver’s door will need repainted black. It’s VERY faded and crusty looking.

Driver’s seat is somehow even more collapsed in the bolsters than my ‘91. I don’t understand how

Super tacky fake carbon fiber shift knob

The asking price is *$5995* with the car advertised as “like-new condition”

112,000 miles is... eh. I can live with it.

Gonna try talking him down to $4700. Failing that, $5100 considering it’s going to need $400+ worth of tires within a year.

Now, the annoying part: I got the guy on the phone finally once I got to the dealership and he was getting tires put on a truck, said he could be there in 45 minutes. I said I’d wait.

TWO HOURS LATER. NOTHING. And he wouldn’t pick up his phone.

I am so damn frustrated. First that NC and now this thing. Buying cars blows ass. Meanwhile the A/C in the Riviera crapped out completely and now the car smells *really* bad. Super fun in stop and go traffic with no airflow through the rolled-down windows. Ugh.

LongbowMkII > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 08/31/2016 at 21:52

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Why would paint the driver door black?

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > LongbowMkII 08/31/2016 at 21:53

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Sorry, interior door panel. The plastic is faded and nasty.

daender > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 08/31/2016 at 22:02

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‘02 SE:

Good:

-It’s a fully-loaded NB2 but with the better-looking (IMO) black interior. Saddle-brown seats and door inserts are okay but I’d swap them out for the later Azure Blue variants from an ‘04.

-You have all the performance goodies that the LS-packaged NB2s get without the tan leather interior. Front tower brace, underbody butterfly brace, bigger sway bars, larger brake rotors and calipers and etc.

-OEM matte silver trim in best interior trim; so good that Mazda started using in the ‘03+ LS-packaged, SE, and Mazdaspeed models.

-The pedal covers are a 2-year-only design and only available on the ‘02-’03 SEs, they look good.

-Make sure the rare Saddle Brown boot cover comes with the car.

-4700$ is pretty good for a SE in that condition even with that potential rust issue. Check Miata.net to see if it belonged to a member.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Bad:

-Ew, ABS. I never really liked the feel of the ABS brake pedal. The communication isn’t as clear or as responsive as the non-ABS system. It also relocates the washer fluid bottle over the exhaust header...which may actually not be a bad thing given you’re up north and it’s cold.

-I’m not a fan of the shorter 6-speed gearing even with that 3.90 Torsen (versus the 4.30 in the regular LSD NBs). Although the transmission is a bit more robust than the 5-speed so it’s popular with F/I applications, especially when combined with the expensive but worthwhile 3.63 Aussie LSD unit.

-One of the heaviest OEM 16" wheels out there at 18 lbs

-The radiator looks to be olive-brown, it’s gonna need replacing soon.

-Check the pigtail on your hardtop; NA pigtails aren’t the same as the NB .

-Those little silver nipples on the vents aren’t helping the typical “drooping” our vents suffer from.

BayAreaMiataBoi > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 08/31/2016 at 22:03

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You can verify that is actually a Special Edition by checking the VIN against this list:

Y http://www.miata.net/faq/brochures/…

LongbowMkII > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 08/31/2016 at 22:04

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It should be easy to make new panels for both doors. It was pretty popular on CR.net several years back. Replacing arm rests with pull straps, etc.

Get Alacantara(Microsuede) from a fabric store and class that shit up.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 08/31/2016 at 22:10

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You can pay a visit to your local miata race shop. There is plenty a spec miata guy that’ll part with a door panel that is doing nothing but taking up space in their attic for very reasonable amounts of money.

daender > BayAreaMiataBoi 08/31/2016 at 22:20

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Good call but it’s unnecessary since this one has all the visual clues to confirm it’s SE origins.

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 08/31/2016 at 22:24

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Did you sell any cars from the fleet yet?

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) 08/31/2016 at 22:25

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Not yet. Still waiting on parts for the Nissan. Driving the Buick until I get a new car.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 08/31/2016 at 22:26

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“local miata race shop”

“Wichita Kansas”

HAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA I WISH

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > LongbowMkII 08/31/2016 at 22:29

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You’re thinking of the NA, which had door panels like this:

Not stock, obviously, but a flat panel.

This is an NB panel, more or less.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > BayAreaMiataBoi 08/31/2016 at 22:30

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Number 1670

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > daender 08/31/2016 at 22:32

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Yeah this is basically the ultimate NB Miata.

-ABS will be nice in the winter, and the LSD, probably.

-Short gearing is more fun. Might not be faster, but shifting is fun.

-Yeah but the wheels are SO GOOD LOOKING

-Radiator looked fine, just a bit dirty. I made sure to check for corrosion -and such.

-I didn’t realize the pigtail was different.

-Are those nipples not stock?

Sam > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 08/31/2016 at 22:35

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Other than the door panel, it looks pretty nice. Seats don’t look excessively worn. I see it’s missing the brown, interior-matching boot for the top, though, so that could be another bargaining chip for you (unless it just isn’t pictured).

My dad bought a 2002 SE with just under 80k on it for ~$8k. But it really was in “like-new condition”. If we strip ours in the coming winter, I can sell you the proper door panel. It was rear-ended by a semi, so his plan is to make it into a dedicated track/AutoX car.

The sound system is actually pretty good - for a Miata. Also, these SEs came with the Bilstein suspension from the LS. The wheels are pretty good looking, too, and it handles a bit differently with the larger diameter.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 08/31/2016 at 22:37

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I actually find this a little surprising. Don’t y’all make a crap load of airplanes there? Seems like Miata race shop would fit in well with the blue collar manufacturing city thing.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 08/31/2016 at 22:39

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Import anything-that-isn’t-a-civic is next to impossible to find parts for around here. This is the home of Darryl Starbird and a few other old hot-rodders, so the speed shops here mostly cater to people who listen to 60s music in their streetable drag Charger or cookie cutter street rod.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 08/31/2016 at 22:47

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Maybe not in Wichita, but with Heartland park up the turnpike from you, there is certainly a shop or two in Topeka that plays with miatas. IIRC, the prather motorsports guys are in Topeka. There is also always the treasure coast miata and planet miata guys online selling takeoff parts like that from salvage cars and racecar builds.

I’ve got some family in Witchita. Between my two cousins, they’ve had a variety of Japanese and Euro sportscars ranging from S2000/RSX/370z type stuff to Caymans, Boxters and the like. They don’t work on their own cars, so there is someone in Witchita doing import work.

daender > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 08/31/2016 at 22:56

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Pigtails are indeed different as I recently helped a friend pickup an OEM hardtop for his NA. Turns out it’s a NA hardtop with the correct pigtail and it hasn’t be modified for a NB plug (seller was using it on his NB1 in Japan; Air Force dude).

Nipples aren’t stock as shown in this photo.

Some things I forgot to mention about the ‘02 that makes it the best NB2 model year.

-‘02 was the first year the NB2 Miata got trunk lights that automatically turned on whenever you popped the trunk open. It’s a small convenience that’s useful at night when you don’t want to leave all the other lights on just to see into the trunk.

-‘02 is the last year for the Torsen-supplied LSD unit in a N/A Miata, both 3.90 and 4.30 ratios. The VLSD made by Tochigi-Fuji is a POS in my honest opinion, especially with their nasty habit to shear clutch tabs over time and heavy usage. The Miataspeeds came with Torsen units but they’re worth more due to the thicker/strong half-shafts that come with them to handle the additional power.

-The Bose radio is polarizing. Some hate it and some are fine with it. I recommend setting the bass down to 2 bars and the treble down to 4 bars. Also, the NB2 Bose radio has 6 settings that automatically increase the volume depending on the speed of the vehicle. To access those settings along with adjust the bass, treble, and balance, press the right knob in. The first press will bring up the volume-to-speed settings (ALCoff, Top Down 1-3, Top Up 1-3; 3 being the loudest and the Top Down being louder than Top Up).

-Speaking of the Bose, if you to drop in an aftermarket unit, then you have to be more careful with your head-unit selection due to the differences in radio wiring compared to a non-Bose NB2. The Bose-ectomy is a popular choice to convert it back to normal by replacing the thinner-gauge wiring and dual amps, allowing you to run whatever speakers, wires, amps, and head-unit that you desire.

By the way, VTCS system in the NB2 is for emissions bullshit and it does not have any performance benefits like the NB1 VICS system. It’s meant to improve emissions on cold starts for emissions-testing purposes and make the Californian government happy. It “tumbles” the air using a set of butterfly valves, creating a more efficient burn but it also chokes the airflow a bit. You’ll notice non-USDM NB2s have a “squaretop” intake manifold that makes about 5hp more (all of that at the high-end) out of the box on a stock ECU...but the part typically costs about 500$ when you factor in purchasing and shipping from overseas.

Oh, and please make sure to use premium gas only. You’ll get better fuel economy and performance.

If you have any NB2 or ‘02-specific questions, then I’m more than glad to answer then since I’ve owned mine for over 3 years now.

BayAreaMiataBoi > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 08/31/2016 at 23:00

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Yay! I’m glad that it is a real SE!
When I was shopping for my ‘01 SE, I found two(!) fake SEs for sale. One was a standard with absolutely no changes.
The other was the wrong color “With a door sticker that says that it is an SE, so yeah, it’s an SE!” (even though the advertised VIN wasn't even on the list of SEs, sheesh!)

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > daender 08/31/2016 at 23:07

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This is some awesome information, thanks! Out of curiosity, what sort of fuel economy have you been seeing from yours? Do you have a torsen, if so, do you notice its effects when driving in an autocross or autocross-like situation on mediocre tires? Any tire recommendations? I’ll likely keep the stock head unit. Is an aftermarket intake worth it on these?

Shour, Aloof and Obnoxious > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 09/01/2016 at 00:56

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HOLY CRAP THAT IS MY CAR.

Okay, not REALLY, but it’s a dead ringer before the hail destroyed my car. (And a curb destroyed two of my SE wheels...I actually still have all four of those same wheels sitting my garage. Two are still useable, if a little curb-rashed.)

Same year, same colour (ext and int), but mine had 40k more miles, and I replaced the Bose unit once it became unreliable at playing CDs. Pretty much everything Daender has said is straight up true, although my ‘02 SE (which I verified back in the day) did NOT have ABS. It’s possible that this one may not, either - you’ll have to look in the fuse box under the hood and see if there’s a fuse for the ABS or a dead space instead.

One thing that Daender didn’t mention that is worth a bit of warning: the ‘01/‘02 clutch shudder. This was the craziest, stupidest thing, and at least when I bought mine (‘07, I wanna say), the boards at Miata.net had LOTS of people complaining about the clutch shudder on the ‘01/‘02. (Not just the SE, but all manuals.) What was REALLY stupid about it is that it was very literally the ‘01/’02 MYs only , and not any other year...and no one could diagnose it. People had their clutches or trannies replaced, and it’d go away for awhile...and then come back. Most people (myself included) found that the shudder was a warm-weather-only phenomenon, and by the last couple years I was driving it, I had the friction point/throttle ratio so well figured out that I maybe only got one or two shudders a year. It’s been like, five or six years since I looked it up; maybe someone finally diagnosed it. But type “2002 miata cl” into Google, and watch the first suggestion pop up.

I mean, it’s not a deal breaker - the car won’t be undrivable by any measure, really. And under hard driving, like when you’re doing clutch dumps, it won’t happen, so it would never cause a problem at autocross or anything.

The thought of you buying this car amuses me, since, IIRC, we both own LS 400s currently. And now you want to buy a doppelganger of what I used to drive. ^_^

daender > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 09/01/2016 at 06:06

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Let’s see...

-Due to my job being 50 miles away (one way), 90% of my drive is on interstates and highways with the A/C typically running all the time at least on one way, sometimes both ways. Economy is about 29-30 mpg. The trick is to keep the rpms bellow 4000 and you’ll do alright. Go beyond 4k and your economy starts to dip.

-Mine is a LS-packaged Miata so there is a Torsen unit. It does like to get sideways if I get stupid it into autocross corners but it’s tamable with an upgraded front sway bar from Racing Beat. More importantly, I can actually accelerate in a corner rather than spin the inside tire like one of my competitors used to do in his open-diff’d ‘03.

-200 TW tires are the shit but they die quick. I’m running a year-old used set of Dunlop Z2 Star Specs from a friend’s ‘99 NB1 after he moved onto RE-71Rs (FUCKING GOD-LIKE). I love my Z2*s, they’re a bit loud and somewhat questionable in the rain but the grip during autocross more than makes up for it. If you’re looking for a grippy tire that’s better to DD on, then I recommend the BFG Sport Comp 2 but it’s only good until fall or whenever the temps really start to get cold...then you’ll want to mount a set of A/S or winter-only tires.

-Aftermarket intakes do nothing for power, only noise, and just about ALL of them stupidly place the intake filter near the exhaust header shield. The OEM location is near a hole in the fender that sucks in colder air from down there. One guy saw 10*F lower intake temps by simply running some hosing down into said hole from the stock intake . Anyway, there’s a bunch of science and stuff behind the OEM intake like that crinkled part right after the air meter that supposedly improves airflow and reduces intake noise.